/int/ - International

>>7089 >there are parts that are just tedious to get through I still love both Paradise Lost and Divine Comedy, and fortunately they only have these parts in the end. I can't enjoy Beowulf, however. I just can't, it doesn't flow for me. I get that it's cool, I get the significance, but it's just not doing it for me. >Just think of the Iliad where Homer mentions all the ships and commanders for pages and pages without getting to an end. I actually didn't mind that that much, heh. Iliad has this meditative pace to it, especially the German translation. >I think without that it's pointless to read it, because Dante makes many allusions I won't understand otherwise. Oh yeah. You can still read it without commentary and it will still be perfectly great as an epic, but you really need commentary to truly understand and appreciate how much does Dante go through his whole surrounding society in the Comedy.

>>7093 Here's an example, Luther bible from 1534. Still completely intelligible.

>>7094 >especially the German translation. What did you read, the GOAT Voß? Or a modern prose translation like Schadewaldt?

>>7092 >Of course, in translation everything gets understandable no matter how old it is. It's not a matter of translation, it's a matter of lexicon used. Go and try reading Kant, Hegel, or even Heidegger. Regardless of the century in question, there's easy to understand language, and then there's academic tangle, which in the case of Heidegger is at least justified by the complexity of the discussed topics, but with Kant and especially Hegel takes the form on intentionally speculative gibberish.

>>7096 Voß, of course.

>>7097 But that's a different question. Mexican Bernd initiated a conversation about the age of language and the understandability linked with it. What you're saying about Kant, Hegel etc. is a matter of complexity of language that doesn't really have anything to do with how old it is. What I meant to say with that translation statement is, that the translator has liberties, he can give the ancient original a more modern, easier to understand form. We Germans have to take Kant and Hegel as they are, because it would be ridiculous to read a translation of them, I guess for some people their complexity and confusion of language makes them particularly charming. When I studied Hegel at university the lecturer already made fun of Hegel's intentionally encoded writing style. Well, it is how it is.

>>7098 I read Voß as well, but I think the next time I read it, I will try a prose translation. Goethe already wished for a proper prose translation of Homer's works.

>>7099 >What I meant to say with that translation statement is, that the translator has liberties, he can give the ancient original a more modern, easier to understand form. I mean, it's true in the sense that one indeed can not "translate" something like Beowulf into another language without the translation ceasing to be in Old English. You are indeed factually not reading the very letters that the author himself originally wrote. But the lexicon, for the most part with some rare exceptions of wordplay or multiple meanings, is perfectly translatable word for word into the appropriate type of modern spoken or written language, colloquial and academic alike. I genuinely do not think that reading this in German is in any way simplified compared to the language used by Aristophanes in the original.

>>7100 I'm open to trying prose translation, but personally I think it's anywhere from unnecessary to damaging. It's Homer, it mustn't even be read, but instead told and with music at that, to be quite honest.

Old vs. new.... https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeit-Bibliothek_der_100_B%C3%BCcher

>>7103 >Kafka I can not stand how overrated he is. Nabokov coincidentally wrote a better Kafka novel than Kafka himself.

>>7105 Nabokov slandered my boy Dostoevsky, I'll keep my distance

>>7106 Nabokov was unfathomably pretentious, which was worsened by his insufferable attitude. But he did write some good stuff that one can enjoy without delegating any worth to him as a critic. From what I know, he was banally jealous of Fyodor Mikhailovich.

>>7110 Do you only read (fiction) literature or also philosophy/religious (non-fiction) books?

Ordered these from Berliner Zinnfiguren It's a great little shop if you're into historical books (English ones too) and miniatures and they ship worldwide

Very depressing, but great novel overall. Really enjoyed Hesse‘s lucid prose that enabled me to vividly imagine Roßhalde and the psychological situation of the various characters. Made me think about my own family a lot, how things remain unsaid and how that hurts the relationship. Man this book is really underrated.

>>7118 Religious as in stuff like Tolstoy's religious works, or Solovyov's Three Conversations. I started to develop a taste for philosophy in the recent years, but I find the obtuse academic gibberish of the likes of Hegel simply insufferable. The only readable thing from him that I've found was his Lectures on the History of Philosophy. And its factual worth is about the same as for Gibbon's Fall of the Roman Empire: purely of literary nature, with borderline zero historic value. I did greatly enjoy reading Dugin and Guenon, and Russel's A History of Western Philosophy is an interesting dive into how positivists perceive the history. Also, Russel's Marriage and Morals is an absolute must read for anyone who wants to understand the roots of the absolute shit state of the modern sexual relations. The root is there, among positivist cunts like him that were butthurt about the Victorian era puritans. Plato and Aristotle are an absolute joy to read.

>>7280 What do you think about Guenon‘s perennialism?

>>7345 In what sense? I'm not a studied philosopher, I won't be able to give you an analytical essay on it. I think that it's remarkable that already a century ago Guenon was able to decipher all the faults and sins of the Modernity so to say in the bud that were being planted for several centuries at his time, that we nowadays reap as the rancid fruits of globalism. I think that his idea of perennialism is the last saving grace of all human people on earth. This style of integral traditionalism is able to address literally every traditional culture on earth at the same time due to its ability to rally them around the idea of, if you will, denying the metalanguage of the Modernity a right to exist. He's absolutely groundbreaking, and is quintessential to the existence of modern European anti-globalism. Even if the majority of Europeans dissatisfied with the globalist milti-kulti farce have never and will never read him, in their every angried emotion about imigrants, in their every moment of realising the emptiness of the modern materialistic life, in their every day of wondering why consumerism can not replace the hollow left by the removal of the transcendent from their lives — Guenon lives.

>>7121 Medieval assburger.jpg Is it just guys from the shop posing for pics in their book?

>>7348 Thanks. Do you know this book? If not, I wholeheartedly recommend it. It convinced me of the truth of the perennial philosophy. He also quotes the likes of CooPestswamy and Guenon.

>>7357 I actually did not, thank you, will read.

>>7367 As you seem to be interested in Russian spirituality, you might also like this book. Maybe you already know it, I absolutely love it.

>>7374 This should be interesting indeed, I find the traditional folk faith much more fascinating than the religious theology.

>>7376 Well, the second part goes a bit heavy on theology, but it's still being told in the context of a casual talk between startsy and priests, so it's fine. The first part though is as good as any Tolstoy novel.

>>7377 Have you read Tolstoy's philosophical and religious works? His translation and compilation of the Four Gospels is incredible.

>>7378 No, but I ought to.

I couldn’t stop smiling while reading this and I think that’s all the praise it needs.

>>7349 No, they're members of the Kurfürstl. Sächsische Kriegsknechte, a late 1400's living history/reenactment group.

Gertrud was the last novel by Hesse that I hadn’t yet read. It’s rather similar to another early novel like Roßhalde than to his later novels. I feel his later great novels which are the most popular are always focused on one character, the protagonist, the alter ego of Hesse. Sure, in Gertrud that’s the case as well in a sense, but the psychology of other characters in addition to the protagonist is more pronounced I‘d say. Yet again it‘s the story of an artist, a composer this time, that was brought to paper. I felt that aspect came a bit too short in comparison to the psychological aspect, but still not a bad book. Not my favorite Hesse though.

>>7378 Have you ever read this book by Tolstoy‘s wife and if so, is it worth reading? It seems to have been written in response to the Kreutzersonata, but this time from the perspective of a woman.

For history oriented Bernds, I recommend City of the Sharp-Nosed Fish by Peter Parsons >Why? Because it provides an intimate look into the lives of every-day inhabitants that lived ~2000 years ago, and that is actually very unique for a period in such a distant past. Most of the stuff we know from antiquity comes from writings that were preserved during the medieval era by being copied. The actual original sources are long gone. This also means that the things that survive are mostly written by important people considered worthy enough to copy and maintain--famous classical writers like Cicero, Seneca, Xenophon, and so on. To the extent we know about lives of commoners during the era, it is mostly through the view of those writers, who would have been the elites of their time. The extremely dry climate of Egypt however allowed the preservation of massive troves of written documents, letters, scribblings, and such from ordinary people in various towns and cities adjacent to the Nile. The book collates them and provides context behind them, giving you hundreds of little snapshots from their every day lives. Personal letters to friends and family, business-related arguments, etc. It's a very fun read if a detailed look into the common life back then is of any interest to you.

>>7642 Thanks Bernd, this is extremely interesting. Reminds me of this a little: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onfim

>>7651 It's very much like that, or the famous tablet to Ea-Nasir, just on a much, much larger scale. Mundane writings and drawings of people who most likely completely forgot about them soon after they were made, unaware they had inadvertently created invaluable fragments of cultural heritage that would be put into books and museums for countless people to look upon and read about centuries later, thereby immortalizing a part of their lives by sheer luck.

Daphnis and Chloe was nice, a relatively short and light Ancient novel about an adolescent couple of shepherds falling in love and overcoming hurdles to get together. Has some nice descriptions of Ancient Greek shepherd life and the beautiful nature of the Lesbos island, so if you’re into bucolic literature, I’d say go for it. Also liked We by Zamyatin a lot. At first I couldn’t quite get into the choppy writing style, but over time I grew accustomed to it. This is quite similar to other dystopian novels like 1984 or Fahrenheit 451, but of course We preceded them and they probably were inspired by it. I also like We better than the English counterparts, it’s more philosophical and psychologically urgent in a sense.

>>7805 In "We" Zamyatin achieved one of the most beautiful, touching and profound descriptions of the feeling of love that I've ever read anywhere. The way he describes it through D-503's gradually growing feeling of dissonance is absolutely unparalleled in how true it feels, all the more so because the language used is not what you'd ordinarily expect for this topic.

>>7813 Yeah, I had a similar feeling. It also made the story more vivid and gripping in comparison to other dystopian novels. The process of falling in love was also a nice way of showing the growth of his soul. Through that the reader could actually understand why he revolted against the system, I have the feeling that justification lacks often in dystopian novels. Good stuff.

>>7816 >I have the feeling that justification lacks often in dystopian novels Absolutely. Once you read We, the love in other dystopian novels feels ... lacking the profound depth for the male character. It's just that damn good.

>>7376 Related to that I read pic related a while ago, it’s a nice addition to Aufrichtige Erzählungen and Brothers Karamazov with more starets stories

Just read my first Turgenev. Pretty good, like a Tolstoy novel in a more condensed form.

>>7911 I could never get into Turgenev. Not that he's particularly bad, but... well, let's just say I think that Dostoyevskiy was quite on point about him with the characterisation of Karmazinov in Demons.

>>7934 The edition I read has a pretty interesting afterword about his writings and life. His personality and religious beliefs might have been questionable, but doesn’t mean he couldn’t write some good stuff.

>>7935 Now that I think of it, I did like Fathers and Sons, after all. But I still think that Dostoyevskiy's caustic parody of both his personality and his writing style are extremely true. And also absolutely hilarious when you're aware of the context. >[...] thirty-seven years before, “in Germany, when, dost thou remember, we sat under an agate tree and thou didst say to me, ‘Why love? See ochra is growing all around and I love thee; but the ochra will cease to grow, and I shall cease to love.’” Then the fog comes on again, Hoffman appears on the scene, the wood-nymph whistles a tune from Chopin, and suddenly out of the fog appears Ancus Marcius over the roofs of Rome, wearing a laurel wreath. “A chill of ecstasy ran down our backs and we parted forever”—and so on and so on.

>>7940 Can’t comment on that based on Das Adelsgut, I guess I have to read more of his works to get that. But get a load of this lmao

>>7941 Fucking EBIN :DD

>>7945 I wonder, do we need a new book thread or just keep using the old one?

>>7374 Got me a neat hardcover. It's pretty good. I can see why it can be theologically controversial, but the general message of the actual story I find decent. Of course this will be heavily ridiculed by all kinds of protestants and whatnot, but I find it way more appealing than their modernist and modernised religious and institutionalised version of faith. >>8039 It's in the bottom 3rd of the catalog already, I think it's fine to start a new one.

new: >>9215

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