/int/ - International

Industrialized countries vs feudalist countries. Industrialization started in Western Europe and only spread more slowly to others. There were still a lot of peasants at that time.

>>9361 This, except the term 'feudalist'. Feudalism was dead at this time and Russia for example was more an absolute monarchy.

>>9363 What does monarchy have to do with feudalism? A country can be monarchist and feudalist at the same time. I used the term feudalism as the historical development stage that preceded industrial capitalism.

Probably something to do with coal.

>>9359 Population density has a lot to do with it but there are other factors as well like >>9362 and other energy supply and logistics.

Location of coal and other resources is important. But so is capital, these projects are expensive sop require a lot of cap[ital to get started but once they are established they generate more capital that can then be reinvested in more industry. Also infrastructure is important too.

>>9366 You seem to be confused. What you're actually referring to is called the transition from agrarian into industrial societies. Feudalism is a type of medieval political system that preceded the centralised absolute monarchies of the late medieval and early modern periods. Feudalism is I think very specifically defined by the feudal lords having an extremely broad set of freedoms within their fief and actions that they could take towards other fiefs, such as: fulfilling the function of a court and judging his subordinates -- himself, collecting taxes from his direct fief -- himself, providing the protecting for his fief -- himself. But most importantly: declaring wars on other fiefs. The basis for this structure was the principle of feudal homage, and it of course was broken all the time left and right, hence why this period is generally considered to be a chaotic fragmented clusterfuck. Specifically in Western Europe, I think, the real end of this system was the Hundred Years War that saw gradual consolidation of the state powers in the hands of one ruler, more specifically with the invention of a standing army. That's when the feudal lords really started to lose their great autonomy, effectively conceptually ending feudalism and transitioning to centralised autocracy or absolutism. On the other side of Europe in Russia there was a very definitive campaign to end feudalism by ending the collateral succession system that was a growing issue in decentralising the principalities since the XI century: by the mid XVI century all but one Russian appanage princes were removed from power in one way or the other and by the end of the XVI century the country was completely centralised, effectively ending feudalism.

>>9389 Thanks for explaining it to him. I was too lazy.

Isn't it crazy how relevant and wealthy in comparison to others Belgium used to be.

>>9416 1)advantegous location heda 2)culture of non-country

>>9416 Specifically Flanders, yes. It became a very wealthy and important place in the Late Middle Ages because of the textile trade and patronage of artists.

>>9416 I remember once reading that Belgium was, at some point, the country with the highest rate of the population working as factory workers and no other country managed to beat that ever since. I read three explanations for that: 1- they were already focused on manufacturing (processing of wool) even before the industrial revolution. It was actually one of the reasons why they split up with the Netherlands. The netherlands wanted to be merchant, while belgium wanted to be industrial 2- they were the first country that managed to copy what was happening in England. Most other countries had already perceived that England was doing something very different, but were struggling to copy the model 3- the catholic church in Belgium worked to defend the rising worker movement and work with them for a nation-wide industrial policy that benefited them. This goes against the common perception that catholicism stands outside of modern politics involving waged labor and sticks to premodern feudal communal ties. >>9388 AFAIK this is a more recent theory and IMO more convincing. Resources and free labour are important, but modern industries can't exist without modern financing. The problem is that this isn't as easy to visualize in a map as resources or free labour. Usually when people want to explain it, they have to talk about specific laws and policies in this or that country. I guess theoretically one could collect broad data showing in a map the loans, interest rates, savings, etc, but this would be the life work of a historian.

>>9423 >modern industries can't exist without modern financing. The problem is that this isn't as easy to visualize in a map as resources or free labour. It's not really so hard as it ultimately comes down to population, just like free labour. In places with high population density it's easier to generate capital for industrial ventures so it makes industry more common in places with high populations, which is why on the map industry is more common in the most populated areas of both Europe as a whole and individual countries.

>>9416 Flanders had much economical and trading autonomy and privileges by the emperor in the middle age. That was one of the reasons too.

RIVERS I V E R S

>>9419 But wasn't Flanders by then mostly agrarian while the industry and coal were in the south?

>>9440 No, it was densely urbanised. Highest population density in Europe together with Northern/Central Italy in the 14th/15th Cent.